NARAS, the Grammy organization announced a couple of weeks ago that they were getting rid of a number of categories for the Grammy awards. One of them was Spoken Word for Children, which I have won twice and which I was nominated for this year. Spoken word recordings will now be included in the Best Children’s recording category. A lot of people have asked me how I feel about it, and I’ve been giving it some thought.
The short answer is I wasn’t surprised. There are a lot of categories, and there aren’t a lot of submissions for Children’s Spoken Word category. It is one of the reasons I ever had a chance to be nominated, let alone win. So, on one hand, it’s understandable, I kind of saw it coming, and I have been lucky to be there at all.
But it’s a very complicated issue and trying to separate all the elements of it is pretty difficult. It’s almost impossible for me to be objective about it. Let me try to identify a couple of strands of issues
The first thing is that children’s spoken word has been kind of a catch-all, and the people who make the decisions are probably aware of this. Historically, it’s dominantly been people reading books. In the past fifteen years, people like me who have called themselves storytellers, working with oral narrative, not necessarily with a written script, have gotten nominated. This is an apples and oranges thing, and I view my oral narrative as an art form, different from a reading of the written word. But that is a pretty subtle point to make for people who don’t pay attention. Also, there’s no doubt that it is also a category that people have entered because it seemed like a good place to get a Grammy – fewer nominees, and many of them (me, for instance) not household names. It’s an awkward thing, but I usually found myself up against a franchised character, or someone everyone knows who thought it would be great to make a children’s recording. The same thing happens in the Children’s Music category.
Along with this problem of what exactly a spoken word recording is (anything with people talking 51% of the time), there is the nature of the Grammy process. Anyone who’s a member can vote in the categories they want. A big list comes out in November, people vote where they want, and there are finalists. In each category, interested members can vote for one of five finalists. There is no proof that anyone listens to anything. NARAS asks that recordings be listened to and judged solely on their merit. But the truth is, it is often a beauty contest – you vote for who you know, and while lobbying and outright promotion is supposedly forbidden, everyone has their lists of people who vote. Big recording companies have more clout and access to voters than Round River Records in Seekonk, Massachussetts. So if Bruce Springsteen decided to do a storytelling album for children, you can kind of figure that he’s going to have another trophy on his wall. (Actually, I’d like to hear a Springsteen storytelling album for kids….)
And here, of course, I should point out, I have benefited in some weird way from the beauty contest aspect of it. Because I’ve been doing this for close to thirty years, and was first nominated over ten years ago, there are a certain number of people who know me in the “industry”, and indeed, who have been my champions. In a small category, someone like me had a fighting chance. And I like to believe that my recordings were the best, but you could certainly reasonably argue that others were as good, and that the people voted in the category because they knew me. It’s inescapable, and I’d be disingenuous to think anything different.
That part has always troubled me, and continually adds to the imposter syndrome I have, as do most other artists. And I don’t like the competition aspect of it at all – I’ve been up against friends and it’s awkward, and can make one small. Me included.
Other awards, like Parent’s Choice and the Just Plain Folk award depend on a panel of experts who listen to all the stuff – as did the late great National Association of Independent Record Distributors – I’m very proud I won a “best of” award from them. But NARAS doesn’t work that way.
Still, I should say that the beauty contest aspect isn’t the only thing . Often, a recording is recognized by peers as just being superlative, or artists will win because there is a recognition that their body of work and who they are as an artist deserves recognition. A lot of times awards are saying “It’s about time.” This was true for Bonnie Raitt and her “Nick of Time” album and Carolos Santana’s multiple wins, and Herbie Hancock’s surprising award a couple of years ago. Sometimes the good guys win, and for the right reason.
But there were too many categories, it was said. Now, here the question is whether that was an artistic decision or a commercial decision, and I think you can say pretty clearly it was a commercial decision, based on numbers of entrants and economic clout. The recording industry is in deep trouble, and trying to shore itself up. Note I say industry, not recordings themselves. At the awards ceremony I watched the presenter Kathy Griffin (comedian, ha ha ha) openly denigrate the smaller categories as worthless. No one did anything to contradict her. It was a sad display, and a comment on the Academy’s priorities, even if they were her words.
It was industry, not art that was behind the decision. Let me be clear on this – spoken word is an art form, and the recording of spoken word is an art that has been practiced ever since Edison. Caedmon and Weston Woods pioneered spoken word recordings for children, and they cared passionately about what they did. I am, still, deeply influenced by Bill Cosby’s recordings I listened to growing up, and those of Stan Freberg, and Gene Shepherd, and Dylan Thomas, and Carl Sandburg.
I think something is an art if practice and study makes one better at it, and the possibility of improving is open-ended. I am a better storyteller today than I was twenty years ago, and I take great care with my spoken word recordings. I have an approach to recording stories that has evolved over the years. The last recording I made, just under an hour in length, probably took 70 to 80 hours of work on my time – recording and re-recording, editing, listening, adjusting, rethinking, and mixing and mastering. And that was after the years spent developing the stories in the first place. If I were smarter, I could have done it faster, but sometimes it just takes time. Anyone who has ever listened to Jim Dale read the Harry Potter books knows that a master is at work. And it is a significantly different art than music.
Because the recording industry is almost exclusively about music, I sometimes hear musicians dismiss the spoken word as something anyone could do.
And anyone can play a piano.
Also, it’s part and parcel of working with children to have your work discounted. A very typical experience for me is to have someone fawn all over me when they hear I’ve won a Grammy, and then suddenly lose interest when they find it was a storytelling recording for children. Suddenly, I’m just not very interesting. That’s more of a comment on them, but there it is. Is recording for children an art form or afterthought? Hmmm.
So, I’m saying if this was based on artistry, there was no reason for it to happen. But having been to the Grammys numerous times, I also know that it is mostly about the industry. That’s okay. There is still something exciting about it, and art continues to assert itself, even where Mammon rules. Us little guys get to hang on the fringe, and in some cases have some say. Here I should note Cathy Fink’s dogged determination to have the Grammys mean something to us, and for that I am deeply grateful. She is, really, amazing.
So, I’m sad but understanding of it all. I was very lucky to be there. Spoken word recordings will receive even less attention, and NARAS will have less to do with that one aspect of recording. It is an art, and a fine one, but there is not much money in it. And not a lot of people do it. And my guess is that we’ll never see another spoken word album for children win a Grammy.
Unless, of course, the Boss decides to make one.
Well said Bill!
I enjoyed your thoughts on the subject. It does feel like storytelling struggles to find an niche in the art world. That attitude that people have that anyone can tell a story.
I feel that the “art of storytelling” is coming into a cross roads.
Not a plateau, but really …Where do we go from here?
I believe we professionals need to come together and create a space for our art in the art world. How does the National Endowment for the Arts sees us? Any thoughts there?
The word storytelling is very marginalized and as thin as air at times. Good song writers, film directors, novelists, even a interior designer can be called called great storytellers and they do well. So who is the guy up on stage telling a story with no script????
Then others think it is still grandma sitting on a rockers telling to kids. Nothing wrong with Grandma, we need more Grandmas in our society telling stories and kids listening to them. But that is not all storytelling is either. I was at a major show case where they did not give Storytellers the main stage. But then I went around and there were several solo performers delivering stories verbally with a small set or a musician. They were storytellers. So, the big producers struggle with the word themselves.
Then if one tries to define what the art is, a lot of people would not be called storytellers. Specially those who move a lot on stage..OOps!!!!
So, lets keep the dialogue going and take this art form from a cross roads to higher ground. We need to be careful so that storytelling does not become just a good compliment to other artist who create narratives in the art forms.
Cheers,
Antonio.
Antonio-
Sorry on the late reply. I think your question about how we get recognized by arts organizations is probably the most important one we face. We need to have some talks about it.
Bill,
Nicely written. My daughter and I truly appreciate your art form. Having made an album I can appreciate how much time and effort it takes for your stuff to sound so good. Grammy sounding good in my opinion. Then again anyone can write a story and strum some guitar…;) Keep up the good work and hopefully I’ll see you at kindiefest.
John
I forgot to mention BIG Bill Cosby fan as well!
Very well said Bill. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’d heard about this change. Wondered what you felt. Now I know.
You do exceptional work. You touch hearts and minds and help deepen the texture of the lives of many children and families.
Peace and prosperity to you and yours in the years ahead.
Michael
Toronto
Canada
I hardly know what to say! I’m dismayed that this category could be put aside and oh so proud that you’ve been at the table to represent storytelling. Kathy Griffin has been one of my favorite spoke word performers over the past few years, so I’m doubly dismayed that she put down this good work as worthless.
Yet another example of how we have to set our own standards and live by them.
Bill, you’ve been there holding up the mirror all along. Thank you.
Lee-Ellen
Bill-Great thoughts here, and what I appreciate most is you having THOUGHT about it instead of “shooting from the hip” as many reviewers and pundits have. I believe that the purpose of consolidating 30 categories and landing with 78 was to make each GRAMMY more valuable. Some categories had 400 entires with 5 nominees, some had 27, with 5 nominees. What is equal about those final awards?
There was also the concept that the # of categories had become a runaway train, with the awards starting 54 yrs. ago and no systematic approach to the design of each field.
American Roots has also been trimmed. Folk now includes contemporary & trad folk. Trad folk was waning in entries. Polka, Native American & Cajun/Zydeco are now “Regional Roots”. Talk about apples and oranges! But those categories were also small in entries.
Everything in the “music” and recording industries is changing and who knows where it’s going. Much easier to see where it’s been.
So, back to our art. You are still a GRAMMY winner and have been a great role model for making excellent recordings. Sometimes the little guy does win and in turn, we all win when they do.
Cathy
I never knew there was a category such as Spoken Word for Children until you were nominated for it. Actually, I never knew there was a grammy for Best Children’s recordings.
I’ve got to ask, is there a category for Spoken Word for Adults? – Probably not, most adults have forgotten how to listen.
-Shucks, now I’m feeling all warm & fuzzy thinking about all of the times my family and I have turned to your spoken words to get through the rough times….
I have a hunch that if you look into the audience you will find something much more valuable than a Grammy.
Signed – One Baba who is more than grateful to let you handle both the spoken & the written words. I get thumb tied!
To answer Antonio about NEA, I have rec’d NEA grants for storytelling in years past. An interesting thing happened this past year however where now panelists are scholars and not artists. As storytellers one must enter into the ‘theater’ category. There is no category for storytellers. Anyway, with this past grant app, I applied for monies to support the production of my immigration story – 1850 my ancestors crashed into the California coast at Carmel. The story involves how we started the fishing industry there, the first canneries, the anti-Chinese violence and laws they faced and still how we survived and made our contributions to building this country. With anti-immigration issues spawning, it’s an important story to remind others that yes, even persons of color are Americans from long ago and have contributed. However, a panelist called the story self-serving. A panelist couldn’t understand how we did ‘Takashi’s Dream’ – a Japanese piece and now do a Chinese piece. It was very weird. They also as scholars wanted not just production, but workshops. So… storytelling? What’s that? It seems a step backwards at NEA.
We know, and our audiences know our art. Do we need to go after awards and mainstream fame? I don’t think so. We offer a valuable service through our artform and it is appreciated. This is good. Good enough?
Heya
Thank you ,sir. I agree with the feelings about the change & the analysis of the cause.
Problem is, the way “mainstream” public (in big numbers) is going to hear about us, change their perception of storytellers, and spread the word is if we do become nominees and winners on a bigger stage…be it awards ceremonies or talent shows or ???
So whittling down those opportunities needs to be one of those ‘a door closes, open a window’ moments for the storytelling community.
Looking forward…
Dear Bill,
Your comments are well thought out and appreciated. I have an early childhood background and have worked hard at learning about the development of youngsters as well as the craft of what it means to work in an arena with very young humans. It takes practice,energy, experience, and stamina.
I believe that you, along with folks like Cathy Fink and Marcy Marxer, have brought new attention and respect to the field. Many heartfelt thanks.
Tricia
Dear Bill,
I first saw you with my then three-year-old daughter at the Greek Theatre in L.A. on Mother’s Day in 1993 (it was also my birthday). The bill included Bobby McPherson and Little Richard and Sting, amongst others. It was a great concert and then YOU came on toward the end of the day and blew my mind. Of all the great acts that were part of that lovely day, it was your raucous and meanginful songs that truly “spoke” to our hearts. The next day I went on a quest to find “Big, Big, World” which, at that time, was the ONLY children’s “tape” that my daughter could listen to over and over without me wanting to blow my brains out. Several years later, I bought the CD for a friend’s child and one for our family to replace our ragged tape. My daughter will be 21 this summer. When she is home from college, we still put in your CD and sing at the top of our lungs to Pizza Shake and The Pirate Song. Perhaps, the knowledge that your songs are part of SO many family’s legacies will serve as the BEST kind of award. We discovered your spoken word CDs in later years and still love those as well. Grammy Schmammy… YOU and your talent are so much bigger than any statue. Thank you for YEARS of poignant and hilarious words and music.
Linda
Linda-
Thanks for that memory. That was a wild day, and I left really unsure how I went over, especially among all those other folks. (Little Richard gave me a signed Bible, which was a confusing experience.) So your response brought back a flood of memories, and an affirmation. Great to hear from you and say hi to your daughter.
Thanks for the explanation. We’re still going add “Grammy Winning” to your name when we sell your CD’s, and the kids in this town still get excited when you come to lay your art before them. They’re pretty psyched about your upcoming school visits and performance.
We’re still selling your books, too. And that gets to the meat of the matter: in the age of e-this and app-that, good books still sell. Crummy ones don’t. But good ones still find their niche.
Bill, you are so NOT an imposter! You’re the greatest. Keep talking and telling, writing, singing. Please and thank you.
Hi Bill – Every year when I go up the road to the Sierra Storytelling Festival I’m reminded of the immense value of the eternal art of storytelling. (You’ve been there–come back soon!) I sit outside among the trees on those hard benches and listen as these artists conjure not just stories, not just images, not just smells, but emotions from times and places far away. I laugh until I fall off my bench, and I cry along with the rest of the gathering as the storytellers help take us back to our common humanity, sometimes so difficult to touch in a cyber age. I learn of places I’ve never been and of people whose lives I would never be able to touch in the same way otherwise. I leave the festival each year with new hope and new connection to my global family.
In our society of inverted values, I think of spoken word artists as holding the same space as teachers: under-recognized, underpaid carriers of the knowledge and humor and understanding that we all need to thrive. Those of us who were lucky enough to be exposed to good storytelling at a young age, and who have been able to pass that delicious treat along to our children, need to spread a wider net, and publicize the richness and value of storytelling better. If we can, perhaps there will be a time in the future when the first-level category of the recording industry awards will be Spoken Word, and instead of a vacuous song being the highlight of the awards, we can all sit back and listen to the storyteller.
Utah Phillips used to say that the long memory is the most radical idea in America. Storytellers help us develop that long memory by enabling us to remember not only what has happened in the past, but what it means to be human. Surely that’s worth an award.
Well spoken, Bill. I, too, was not surprised to read about this GRAMMY consolidation. I regret the loss of the spoken word category, but I welcome the dialog it has inspired. Maybe some day The Academy will do what the Oscars have recently done and include 10 nominees.
Dear Bill,
I was introduced to your stories when my daughter was an infant by a very good friend. My daughter is now 12 and we still listen to you. I have attended your children as well as adult shows and think you are wonderful. Your full-of-life attitude and gift for story telling is uplifting. Your stories always put me in a good mood. I am an educator and have shared many of your stories with my students. I have used your stories as inspiration for creative writing activities. It is a shame that your artform is being dropped from the Grammy Awards. It doesn’t make sense! These people should know about all the people out there who have an appreciation for what you do! You are a true winner in my “ears” and with many, many, other people! Please do not let this bring you down… maybe you could write a song about the Grammy’s? I’m sure you could create a funny one! Keep up the great work and know that what you do is greatly appreciated!
Best Regards,
Marisa
P.S. You’re a great writer too! I have your books!
Bill – Well said! On behalf of my late husband Carroll, I say “Amen!” Don’t let spoken word for children – or adults – die out!
Clarice Stegall
Hey, Bill. It’s Ellen in Portland. I so appreciate reading your insightful comments, which reveal how your thinking went on this not-so-good turn of events. Others have said what I will echo: while we lose one national platform, it has nothing to do with the incredible quality of your work and of other storytellers working right now. The thrill of listening to a story well told transcends awards and is the greatest gift to listeners (and fans!). Please carry on with a lighter heart….
Hmmm, don’t share Bill’s sense of loss on this one. A fella who knows a thing or two about popular culture said you don’t need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows.
For you analytical types, lets try this one: The Grammies are to storytelling what Donald Trump is to politics.
The fact is black sox never get dirty, you know? David Strohm